-------------->Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 05:17:13 +0200 From: dani censor Subject: Re: Karsli & Elam To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL Precedence: list =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector dear karlP Karl Pfeifer wrote: > Elam equates Sharon with Hitler, and Jenin 2002 with the Warsaw Ghetto 1943. please avoid such comments which are not material to your subject. dani ... =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:14:39 +0200 From: Shaul Krakover Subject: Dennis Ross charset="windows-1255" Unauthorized Encoding Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> An unedited free subscription list =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Caveat lector Following is an article worth reading for those who are interested in = "Oslo peace process". Shaul Krakover March 12, 2003, 10:15 a.m. Rewinding Ross The Mideast envoy knew the "process" wouldn=92t work all along? By Martin Krossel http://www.nationalreview.com In a recent Los Angeles Times op-ed, former U.S. Mideast special envoy = Dennis Ross revealed longstanding reservations about the = Israeli-Palestinian "peace process." The article was a critique of the = "road map" that is supposed to guide future negotiations and was largely = ignored =97 maybe because of the Israeli election. Now that the voting = is over, it deserves attention.=20 Ross admits, "At no time during the Oslo process were those who carried = out acts of terror against Israelis treated as enemies of the cause by = the Palestinian leadership. The road map, like Oslo before it, makes no = effort to de-legitimize terror and violence." The very least that = Israelis should have been able to expect from a "peace process" was a = cessation of Palestinian terrorism. But Ross now acknowledges that = throughout nine years of negotiations no attempt was made to achieve = even this minimum level of security.=20 The problem, of course, is that Ross, more than anyone else, was = responsible for the conduct of the Oslo negotiations from beginning to = end. While a diplomat, Ross never indicated any doubt that the = successful conclusion of the Oslo process would lead to peace. Only = after leaving government has he suggested that Oslo was badly flawed. Ross explains away this inconsistency by insisting that before the Camp = David summit in the summer of 2000 he believed that the "peace process" = was making progress, because Yasser Arafat and the PLO had made a real = commitment to ending the conflict with Israel. In the July-August 2002 = edition of Foreign Policy, he wrote, "Through the Oslo peace process = everybody involved =97 Palestinians, Israelis, Americans, Egyptians, = Saudis, and other Arab leaders =97 shared the belief that Arafat wanted = peace with Israel. It seemed logical. After all, Arafat had crossed the = threshold and recognized Israel, incurring the wrath of secular and = religious rejectionists." Before Camp David, Ross argued, it was possible to account for Arafat's = obstinacy: "Although Arafat held out to the last possible moment and = strived for the best possible deal, he eventually made the compromises = necessary to reach . . . interim agreements." Elsewhere, however, Ross had already hinted at severe doubts about = Arafat's desire for peace much earlier in the Oslo process. Almost a = year earlier, in a letter to the New York Review of Books in September = 2001, he described Arafat's negotiating style in much harsher terms: = "His style was to respond, not [to] initiate ideas. If [this] was only a = tactic, it should have stopped when serious ideas or package proposals = were put on the table. Whether the Israelis put a generous offer on the = table is not the issue. The issue is, did Yasser Arafat respond at any = point =97 not only at Camp David =97 to possibilities to end this = conflict when they presented themselves." Along the same lines, in the very same Foreign Policy article in which = he professed to have believed right up until Camp David that Arafat = wanted peace, Ross also wrote, "Every agreement he made was limited and = contained nothing he regarded as irrevocable. He was not, in his eyes, = required to surrender any claims. . . . During the Oslo peace process, = he never prepared his public for compromise. Instead, he led the = Palestinians to believe the peace process would produce everything that = they ever wanted =97 and he implicitly suggested a return to armed = struggle if negotiations fell short of those unattainable goals. Even in = good times, Arafat spoke to Palestinian groups about how the struggle, = the jihad, would lead them to Jerusalem." In the same article, Ross discussed Arafat's failure to comply with = existing agreements =97 mainly by failing to control Palestinian = violence against Israeli civilians throughout the Oslo process. = "Notwithstanding his commitment to renounce violence, he has never = relinquished the terror card." Ross also explicitly acknowledged that = Arafat was completely capable of stopping terrorist attacks against = Israel. He argued that Arafat had demonstrated this ability in the past = =97 "notably in 1996 when he cracked down on Hamas and also in the first = year of former Prime Minister Ehud Barak's administration, when Israel, = for the first time in its history, had a year in which it did not suffer = a single fatality from terror." And, perhaps most damning of all: "Whether one thinks . . . Arafat = directs the violence or simply acquiesces to it, the unmistakable fact = is that he made no serious or sustained effort to stop the violence." What was the Clinton administration's reaction to all this? According to = a Washington Post op-ed by Ross, "The prudential issues of compliance = were neglected and politicized by the Americans in favor of keeping the = peace process afloat. . . . Every time there was a behavior, or an = incident, or an event that was inconsistent with what the peace process = was about, the impulse was to rationalize it, finesse it, find a way = around it, and not allow it to break the process." Knowing what the Americans already knew about Arafat's unwillingness to = conclude a conflict-ending treaty with Israel, and with bombs going off = in Israel's streets, what was the point of the frenzied diplomacy to = negotiate a peace treaty in Bill Clinton's last days in office? Clinton = was more interested in his image of a peacemaker than actual peace, and = it is likely that he expected the "peace process" to collapse. He = probably made the calculation that he would get credit for a peace = treaty signed under his watch, whereas blame for the eventual collapse = of the peace process would be assigned to the president then in office. Diplomats like Ross, in theory, only implement the policies of their = political superiors. But if Ross had the doubts that he is now = expressing about Oslo while he was Clinton's envoy, he had a duty to act = on them. Ross probably had enough influence to get the Clinton = administration to change course; but even if he didn't, he had a moral = responsibility to resign, and maybe even publicly to articulate the = reasons for his resignation. When he published his memoirs, former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara = was widely criticized for not speaking out against American intervention = in Vietnam while he was still in office. By going public with his = misgivings, McNamara could have forced the Johnson administration to = withdraw immediately, saving the lives of soldiers and civilians who = subsequently died in that war. The same could be said for Ross. The people of the Middle East, = particularly Israelis, have paid dearly for the "peace process." The = creation of the Palestinian Authority, really the single tangible = product of Oslo, has only provided a safe haven for the planning and = execution of suicide bombing =97 a form of warfare that the Palestinians = never employed before Oslo. Oslo's provisions for the arming of a = Palestinian "police force" were used to assemble what amounts to a = Palestinian army that has already engaged Israelis in fighting, and may = have an important role in any larger war. Ross's newfound candor cannot = compensate for any of this. a.. Martin Krossel is a freelance political journalist living in New = York. Sandi Rosenbaum assisted him in the preparation of the article. http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-krossel031203.asp =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:51:14 -0800 From: Jerry Blaz Subject: Re: French Nation To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL In-Reply-To: <003301c2e8b7$1e1447e0$6f2c4084@huji.acil.tms.huji.ac.il> Precedence: list =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector At 04:47 PM 3/12/2003 +0000, you wrote: >The French are the only nation ,outside of Israel of course ,that had THREE >Jewish prime ministers in the 20th century. >Unlike Kreisky of Austria all three were proud of their Jewishness. >. >Beside them,as far as I remember ,only Italy had a Jewish PM around WW I > >And France was the only nation ready to provide fighter planes to Israelin >the fifties and the early sixties.If not for France we would have lost the >Six Day War.And the French also sold us our nuclear deterrent.In those years >,the Americans try yo help the Syrians steal our Jordan water,and later when >the Soviets gave us an ultimatum to leave the Sinai in 56 ( if not they >would throw nuclear bombs at us),The US also sent an ultimatum. >Before Johnson no US president wanted to meet a Israeli PM even for a work >session >Vive la France. >Ilan But what have they done for us lately? Seriously, a lot of this French-bashing is sheer childishness. It has the largest Jewish population in Europe, and it is necessary that we keep our lines open to them. It also has the largest Muslim population, which may inform our understanding of why Chiraq has threatened a veto of the Iraq war. I have my own longstanding opinions which conclude that there will not be a war between the U.S. and Iraq, but that is a different thread. Jerry Blaz Jerry Blaz Member of IOBA/a mark of online trustworthiness The BOOKie Joint mail-order 7248 Reseda Blvd. P.O.Box 572168 Reseda, CA 91335 Tarzana, CA 91357 (818)345-2983/(818)343-1055 ffdog@earthlink.net Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. G. Marx =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:48:59 +0200 From: "Prof. Aaron Peled" Subject: Academy, Science and Islam To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL Precedence: list =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> An unedited free subscription list =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Caveat lector Dear Academia, >From "Nature", which is not easily accessible from the web, here are 2= commentaries relevant to our tormenting discussions during the past 2= years. Ref [1] deals with Academy vs. Islam, while Ref. [2] (for which= I can supply only the abstract ) deals with Islam vs.Science , please see= below, Cordially APeled References: [1] Nature 422, 101 - 102 (2003); doi:10.1038/422101a Academies wrestle with issue of Islam's flagging science base DECLAN BUTLER [TRIESTE] With the world on the brink of a conflict that is likely to= reverberate for years to come, scientific leaders gathered in Trieste,= Italy, last week to discuss why Islamic countries have neglected science= and technology, and what could be done to end this neglect. Stretching from Indonesia to Morocco, and from Uganda to Kazakhstan, Muslim= countries are home to 1.3 billion people and three-quarters of the world's= fuel reserves. But their combined gross national product (GNP) is less= than half that of Germany, illiteracy levels are among the world's= highest, and science spending, at 0.2% of GNP, is well below the global= average. The meeting of research ministers and heads of scientific academies was= organized by the InterAcademy Panel on International Issues, as part of an= effort to strengthen the resources and roles of scientific academies= worldwide in promoting research and providing independent advice to= governments. The delegates argued that political leaders in Islamic nations often fail= to appreciate the importance of scientific research to their countries'= development. Most speakers blamed public spending skewed towards the= military, low educational standards, and a lack of public interest in= science for this pattern. But there was less agreement on whether the region's stunted scientific= development can be linked to the practice of Islam. Many speakers pointed= out that the religion itself is pro-science, with the Koran stating the= duty of Muslims to seek knowledge of nature. Indeed, they added that the= Islamic world enjoyed six centuries of scientific progress while Europe= was floundering in the Dark Ages. But some delegates argued that aspects of Islam =97 particularly= fundamentalism =97 are incompatible with modernity and science. They even= proposed that scientists should help to 'reform' Islam. Others said that= better science education might discourage people from what many scientists= regard as the irrational aspects of religious belief. "The problem is coming from dogma, from narrow interpretations of the= Koran," said Atta-ur-Rahman, president of the Pakistan Academy of Sciences= and minister for higher education. Rahman, who is director of the Husein= Ebrahim Jamal Research Institute of Chemistry in Karachi, has championed= plans to create a multibillion Pan Islamic R&D Fund by the 57-state= Organization of the Islamic Conference (see Nature 416, 120=96122; 2002). Perhaps the most contentious suggestion was that science is stifled by a= lack of democracy in authoritarian Islamic countries. Adnan Badran,= president of the Beirut-based Arab Academy of Sciences and former deputy= director-general of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and= Cultural Organization, is convinced that a lack of free expression and= creative thinking explains the absence of a vibrant scientific culture.= "Oppressive regimes are hindering the creativity of scientists in Islamic= states, imprisoning the brains of the ?lite," he said. Whether religious culture helps or hinders the advancement of Islamic= society is a "legitimate question", argued ?igdem Kagitcibasi, a= psychologist and member of the Turkish Academy of Sciences. She said it is= important to assess the impact of religious dogma on education, and= expressed concern about the growth of fundamentalist religious schools. Such arguments drew fire from Mohamed Falougi, deputy director general of= the Islamic Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, who said= that they are political, and should not arise at a meeting of scientists.= Saleh Al-Athel, president of the King Abdulaziz City for Science &= Technology in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, warned against the idea that science= is synonymous with progress, whereas Islam is somehow 'backward'. Although the academic ?lite of Islamic countries is generally suspicious of= the United States' motives and commitment to democracy in the region, many= scientists and intellectuals are now so impatient for greater freedom that= they are willing to contemplate change imposed from outside, according to= Badran. The meeting provided a rare opportunity for Western scientific leaders,= such as Bruce Alberts, president of the US National Academy of Sciences,= to rub shoulders with their Islamic counterparts. Most said that the= gathering marked a positive step towards greater cooperation between= Islamic and Western scientists. Rahman added that scientists are well placed to engage in dialogue between= Islamic countries and the West. This was echoed by Abdel-Salam Majali,= president of the Islamic Academy of Sciences and a former prime minister= of Jordan. "Our scientific community needs to work hard at projecting the= true image of our Islamic faith, and counter the gross distortions that= have become part of Western mentality toward Islam since the events of= 9/11," he said. [2] Nature doi:10.1038/422099a Time to unite Islam and science Science in Muslim countries is weak. The reasons for this deserve= attention, as do the consequences for these nations' economic health. A= meeting last week provided a start in this direction. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:06:33 +0200 From: "Prof. Aaron Peled" Subject: FRENCH and Varia Unauthorized Encoding Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> An unedited free subscription list =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Caveat lector Dear Jerry, There are things I agree with you but not with all your axioms: 1.) Seriously, a lot of this French-bashing is sheer childishness. (= AGREE) 2.) It has the largest Jewish population in Europe (Also Poland and= Germany had before WWII- so the argument is irrelevant) 3.) It also has the largest Muslim population ( NOT SURE- MAYBE GERMANY= COMPETES IN ALIEN RESIDENTS with no citizenship rights) 4.) There will not be a war between the U.S. and Iraq ( DO NOT AGREE) Cordially, APeled =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> maintainer e-mail: --=====_104756079326500=_ -------------->Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:34:04 -0000 From: Ilan Hartuv Subject: Re: FRENCH and Varia charset="windows-1255" Unauthorized Encoding Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> An unedited free subscription list =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Caveat lector WRONG !!! In 1939 there were 3350000 Jews in Poland ,2.300000 Jews in the European = parts of the USSR,850000 in Rumania. Germany was fourth with 503.000 in = 1933(in 329 there were less Ilan Aaron wrote 2.) It has the largest Jewish population in Europe (Also Poland and = Germany had before WWII- so the argument is irrelevant) =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:10:06 +0000 From: Asa Kasher Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?q?=20Fwd=3A=20=E4=E6=EE=F0=E4=20=EC=EB=F0=F1?= =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector Dear Colleagues: Re conference on Academic Ethics and Politics, to take place next week at University of Haifa (see attachment for the announcement): If you are interested in taking an active part, during the general discussion (last session), please send me a note and I would be delighted to add your name to the list. You will then have priority over people who will ask to join the list from the floor. Looking forward to hearing from you and then seeing you at the symposium, Asa Kasher Prof. Asa Kasher Laura Schwarz-Kipp Professor of Professional Ethics and Philosophy of Practice and Professor of Philosophy Tel-Aviv University Editor, PHILOSOPHIA Office: +972-3-640-9425 fax: +972-3-640-7953 _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:49:24 +0200 From: "Prof. Aaron Peled" Subject: FRENCH POPULATION VS.OTHER POPULATIONS TAUGHT TO HATE JEWS Unauthorized Encoding Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> An unedited free subscription list =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Caveat lector rE: WRONG !!! In 1939 there were 3350000 Jews in Poland ,2.300000 Jews in the European= parts of the USSR,850000 in Rumania. Germany was fourth with 503.000 in= 1933(in 329 there were less Ilan MY-COMMENT : In the former message ( read carefully) NOT THE NUMBERS ARE IMPORTANT BUT= THE ALLIES ATTITUDE TO THE GERMANS AND SOME OF THE POLES DURING WWII. Cordially, APeled =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> maintainer e-mail: --=====_104757056441=_ -------------->Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:31:15 +0100 From: Karl Pfeifer Subject: PS to Elam To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL Precedence: list =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector On April 11, 2000 the High Court in London labeled David Irving a falsifier of history. Judge Gray declared "Irving is anti-semitic. His words are directed against Jews, either individually or collectively, in the sense that they are be turns hostile, critical, offensive and derisory in their references to semitic people, their characteristics and appearances." He wrote in his judgement, that Irving was also a racist and had associated with militant neo-Nazis and right-wing extremists. Only four days later, on April 15, 2000 (Saturday) the same David Irving notes in his diary: (www.fpp.co.uk/docs/trial/RadDi180400.html) A Swiss Israeli journalist Shraga Elam writes: I find it a real pity that a brilliant researcher like yourself got mixed up with this stuff of the so called "Auschwitz-denial", because I agree with you completely that Hitler was no part of the project Auschwitz. According to my theory, it was even part of a plan of Himmler against Hitler, just as is quiet good proven in the case of the destruction of the Hungarian Jewry in 1944. I share generally your scepticism towards oral History and the manipulations of the priests of the "Holocaust-Religion", still all the "proofs" against the gas chambers in Auschwitz are not convincing at all I reply: Fascinating. Let us correspond more, particularly when the heat of the present ugliness is vorbei. In understand that you are an Israeli journalist? Some of my best friends are ..." So far the exchange of mails between the falsifier of history David Irving and the Israeli "peace activist" based in Switzerland. No comment. Karl Pfeifer =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:10:46 -0800 From: Jerry Blaz Subject: Re: Academy, Science and Islam To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL In-Reply-To: <200303131448590290.00FD8379@10.10.1.2> Precedence: list =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector I believe the approach taken in presenting these articles are probably the most positive messages about the Arabs I've seen here in some time, and very to the point when dealing with the basic problems of Arab society. The ability to invest in basic knowledge has been practically non-existent in Arab society because of many factors which were not dealt with in the Nature article that appeared with the message Aaron sent. I have always found it curious regarding the number of Arab students I've observed, who, having the opportunity to learn in foreign universities, take that opportunity to study disciplines like political science, and how few seem to be taking tracks that lead to basic research. (This is just observational and, therefore, anecdotal, but if there are statistics to the contrary, I haven't seen them.) It has been pointed out that Arab society has been having problems with "modernity," whatever that means, but we do know that, while in Israel during these days, it is difficult to look at this society with unbiased eyes, a dispassionate examination of the roots of these problems with modernity is necessary, and the examination I am referring to is not necessarily a naively political one. Is it possible for Israeli academics to carry on such a discourse these days? It is difficult to remember we came to drain the swamps when we're up to our asses in alligators, but.... Jerry At 02:48 PM 3/13/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Dear Academia, > > From "Nature", which is not easily accessible from the web, here are 2 > commentaries relevant to our tormenting discussions during the past 2 > years. Ref [1] deals with Academy vs. Islam, while Ref. [2] (for which > I can supply only the abstract ) deals with Islam vs.Science , please > see below, > >Cordially > >APeled Jerry Blaz Member of IOBA/a mark of online trustworthiness The BOOKie Joint mail-order 7248 Reseda Blvd. P.O.Box 572168 Reseda, CA 91335 Tarzana, CA 91357 (818)345-2983/(818)343-1055 ffdog@earthlink.net Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. G. Marx =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: