-------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:54:19 +0300 From: Ari Sihvola Subject: Finnish, Turkish To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector Joyous over the fact that my language (with its five million speakers) was subject to ACADEMIA comments, I would like to add the following notes on the history of the Finnish language and culture. (1) The Fenno-Ugric language group is indeed wide and large but whether Turkish is related to them is not proven. It is true that all these non-Indoeuropean languages are agglutinating and may seem related in their structure; however, not enough of basic vocabulary has been found that would be common to all. The Fenno-Ugric language group is a branch of the Uralic language family (samoyedis in Northern Russia form another branch), containing the Fenno-Baltic group (Finnish, Estonian, etc), the Lappish, the Volga group, the Permian group, and the Ugrian languages (the largest of these, of course being Hungarian). The Turkish language family contains many languages in Turkey and Central Asia. I am not a linguist but if I am not mistaken, there was a lot of speculation in the 19th century about the relations of Turkish to other languages in Asia. According to the so-called Altaic hypothesis, the Turkish family was related to the Mongolian and Tungusian language families. Another speculation was the Ural-Altaic hypothesis which suggested a distant relation to the Uralic languages. (For example, the famous Finnish linguist Matias Aleksanteri Castren supported strongly this relation.) However, I understand from my layman reading of recent semiscientific texts on languages that recent linguistic research has been more along anti-altaic lines: Turkish, Mongolian, Tungusian, and Uralic are independent language families. (2) Elias L"onnrot is indeed famous in our country and important for the Finnish conciousness. (28th of February is the day of Finnish culture: the day of Kalevala.) Take a look at http://www.helsinki.fi/kasv/nokol/kalevala.html best regards Ari Sihvola ============================================================== *** Ari Sihvola ### ari.sihvola@hut.fi http://www.hut.fi/~asihvola HUT, Electromagnetics Laboratory, Otakaari 5 A, Espoo, Finland tel: +358-9-4512261, fax: +358-9-4512267 Mail address: Helsinki University of Technology, P.O. Box 3000, FIN-02015 HUT, Finland =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:58:26 +0200 From: Hugo Guterman Subject: psychometric exams To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector Shalom, Enclosed you'll find an article from Haaretz concerning the plus and minus of the abolition of the psychometric exams. Hugo ==================================================== Tuesday, October 16, 2001 Tishrei 29, 5762Israel Time: 08:56 (GMT+2) Leveling the playground By Relly Sa'ar Widespread criticism of psychometric exams has led to changes in university admission policies. A few weeks ago, the government approved a law Finance Minister Silvan Shalom sponsored that would abolish the exam, and the universities have decided not to require candidates to submit psychometric scores. As from the next academic year, universities will simply calculate an aggregate score based on the candidate's marks on externally administered matriculation exams in mathematics, English and Hebrew. (These are exams that are nationwide and not "internal" to the individual school.) Politicians have for long criticized the psychometric exam as a barrier to students from development towns or from deprived neighborhoods who want to enter university. In proposal to abolish the exam, former education minister Yossi Sarid said it was the principal factor preventing young people from Israel's periphery from attending institutions of higher learning. Shalom has said that with the abolition of the exam, the percentage of students from towns like Ofakim, Dimona and Sderot on university campuses will increase. The question, however, is whether getting rid of the exam will actually enhance the chances of young people from poorer backgrounds getting into such prestigious departments or faculties as computer sciences, medicine, psychology or law. At an Ha'aretz' request, the office of the chief scientist of the Ministry of Education conducted a comprehensive statistical analysis that offers a gloomy picture regarding the extent of the gap in "quality of education." According to the findings, students from communities characterized by low scholastic attainments would find it difficult to be admitted to high-profile university departments or faculties even after the psychometric exam has been abolished - because of their scores on the matriculation exams. Students from Tel Aviv, Ra'anana, Ramat Gan or Kfar Sava have an almost 250 percent better chance of succeeding in a matriculation exam than their counterparts in Ofakim, Beersheba, Dimona or Kiryat Shmona. According to the analysis carried out by the outgoing chief scientist of the education ministry, Professor Zemira Mevarech, Israel is the most polarized country in the Western world in terms of the scholastic achievements of its high school population. If the psychometric exam is abolished, the importance of a matriculation certificate will be greatly increased. Up to now, a student's score on the psychometric exam was half the score needed for admission to university. In the absence of a psychometric score, candidates for highly competitive university departments or faculties will have to present exceptional matriculation certificates - namely, all A's and in matriculation exams where the learning level of the subject is five units. (In Israel, the learning level for a subject is determined by the number of learning units for that particular subject.) According to education ministry figures, even the quality of the matriculation certificate of a secondary school student from a peripheral community is poor. A student from a community with high levels of schooling and income - Maccabim, Re'ut, Ramat Aviv or Ramat Sharon - are five times more likely to get a high score on an English exam at the top learning level than a student from a low income-learning community like Netivot, Lod, Migdal Ha'emek or Kiryat Gat. Meir Cohen, principal of the Zienman Comprehensive Secondary School in Dimona, thinks the cancellation of the psychometric exam "will not benefit high-school students living in Israel's periphery." He hopes the aggregate score of a candidate's marks on the matriculation exams in mathematics, English and Hebrew will not be the sole criterion for admission to prestigious university departments or faculties. A similar concern is voiced by the principal of the Gottlieb Comprehensive Secondary School in Sderot, Eli Bir. He says that according to the figures at his disposal, only 47 percent of the students in his school completed their matriculation needs during the past academic year. For comparison, more than 90 percent of students in "elitist" secondary schools in North Tel Aviv get a matriculation certificate when they finish their high school studies. Sarid says "in order to close the gap in `quality of education' between Tel Aviv and Dimona, the country's development towns must enjoy a distinct advantage in terms of budget allocations." However, he points out, this skewing of the budget "has never taken place because of chronic budget problems." The director-general of the education ministry, Ronit Tirosh, says that figures showing extreme polarization in Israel regarding quality of education are nothing new. "I have worked in the school system and these figures do not surprise me." She claims the polarization has nothing to do with inadequate education budgets. "Were we to pool all the resources available to students in the periphery from the education ministry and from other agencies active in the field, we would find that the amount of money invested in students from distressed backgrounds is equivalent to the amount of money invested in students from affluent backgrounds." To maximize the effectiveness of investments in education, the budget of the ministry should focus on the starting point of an individual's learning process (through the training of mathematics teachers for work with preschoolers, teaching English in grade one, and teaching reading skills in kindergarten). It should also target the final stage of the secondary school process (through the use of highly skilled teachers to prepare students for their matriculation exams). Tirosh says that "within three years the gaps will be narrower in the education system." =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:52:00 +0200 From: "A.Peled" Subject: Boiling Germs To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector Dear Micah L, Your idea of using MW ovens for boiling germs is indeed very original and interesting..but.... CAUTION !!!!!! Using the home kitchen MW for boiling germs may be dangerous since they have an open system fan/blower which can spread the spores and contaminate not only the MW oven and make it worse, i.e., a respiratory problem. Also, many sealed materials may explode in an MW oven e.g., common eggs. Only special HERMETICALLY SEALED MW ovens may be used safely for the purpose intended, but these are not on the consumer market. For the time being one may reduce the risk by more conventional methods such as calling the sender or giving friends a code which can be written on the envelope, and of course using mainly email, fax rather than snailamail. Cordially, APeled --------------- =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:16:49 +0200 From: Hugo Guterman Subject: Fw: psychometric exams To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector ----- Original Message ----- From: "Prof. Uri Goldbourt" To: "Hugo Guterman" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 11:05 AM Subject: Re: psychometric exams > ...Moreover: > > The schools preparing students for the Psychometric test will quickly > convert into IKOONEY TSIYYON BHINAT NAGROOT. > It will cost as much money and will be tougher to achieve. In other words, > only a certain segment of the Israeli student population will now require > them. Those with good BAGROOT won't - so here is an increase of the gap, > rather than narowing it. > > This is just one indication of the populistic approach of politicians > (some claim, corrupt politicians) on both ends of the political map. What > these politicians strive for is short-term popularity and what their main > interest is we all know - survival. > > Gershon Ben-Shahr's HAARETZ article, cited and attached here, on ACADEMIA, > a month or two moths ago, explained it all beautifully and exposed the > hypocricy of Yossi Sarid and others (leftist or rightist- they all share in > this hoax of "no Psychometric tests, no discrimination) . Given that > serious resreach identified the Psychometric marks as a BETTER PREDICTOR > tahn matriculation amrks, for future success, the removal of the former > only serves to make the choice less accurate with no prise- as exaplined > above - for students of the so called disprivileged areas. > > Hugo: > If you like - forward this to Academia. I am blocked from the list and can > only respond to individuals. > > UG > ------------------------- > > > At 08:58 16/10/01 +0200, Hugo Guterman wrote: > >=======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future > >=======> An unedited free subscription list > >=======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia > >=======> Caveat lector > > > > > >Shalom, > > Enclosed you'll find an article from Haaretz concerning the plus and > >minus of the abolition of the psychometric exams. > > Hugo > >==================================================== > > > >Tuesday, October 16, 2001 Tishrei 29, 5762Israel Time: 08:56 (GMT+2) > >Leveling the playground > > > >By Relly Sa'ar > >Widespread criticism of psychometric exams has led to changes in university > >admission policies. A few weeks ago, the government approved a law Finance > >Minister Silvan Shalom sponsored that would abolish the exam, and the > >universities have decided not to require candidates to submit psychometric > >scores. > > > >As from the next academic year, universities will simply calculate an > >aggregate score based on the candidate's marks on externally administered > >matriculation exams in mathematics, English and Hebrew. (These are exams > >that are nationwide and not "internal" to the individual school.) > > > >Politicians have for long criticized the psychometric exam as a barrier to > >students from development towns or from deprived neighborhoods who want to > >enter university. In proposal to abolish the exam, former education minister > >Yossi Sarid said it was the principal factor preventing young people from > >Israel's periphery from attending institutions of higher learning. Shalom > >has said that with the abolition of the exam, the percentage of students > >from towns like Ofakim, Dimona and Sderot on university campuses will > >increase. > > > >The question, however, is whether getting rid of the exam will actually > >enhance the chances of young people from poorer backgrounds getting into > >such prestigious departments or faculties as computer sciences, medicine, > >psychology or law. > > > >At an Ha'aretz' request, the office of the chief scientist of the Ministry > >of Education conducted a comprehensive statistical analysis that offers a > >gloomy picture regarding the extent of the gap in "quality of education." > >According to the findings, students from communities characterized by low > >scholastic attainments would find it difficult to be admitted to > >high-profile university departments or faculties even after the psychometric > >exam has been abolished - because of their scores on the matriculation > >exams. > > > >Students from Tel Aviv, Ra'anana, Ramat Gan or Kfar Sava have an almost 250 > >percent better chance of succeeding in a matriculation exam than their > >counterparts in Ofakim, Beersheba, Dimona or Kiryat Shmona. According to the > >analysis carried out by the outgoing chief scientist of the education > >ministry, Professor Zemira Mevarech, Israel is the most polarized country in > >the Western world in terms of the scholastic achievements of its high school > >population. > > > >If the psychometric exam is abolished, the importance of a matriculation > >certificate will be greatly increased. Up to now, a student's score on the > >psychometric exam was half the score needed for admission to university. In > >the absence of a psychometric score, candidates for highly competitive > >university departments or faculties will have to present exceptional > >matriculation certificates - namely, all A's and in matriculation exams > >where the learning level of the subject is five units. (In Israel, the > >learning level for a subject is determined by the number of learning units > >for that particular subject.) > > > >According to education ministry figures, even the quality of the > >matriculation certificate of a secondary school student from a peripheral > >community is poor. A student from a community with high levels of schooling > >and income - Maccabim, Re'ut, Ramat Aviv or Ramat Sharon - are five times > >more likely to get a high score on an English exam at the top learning level > >than a student from a low income-learning community like Netivot, Lod, > >Migdal Ha'emek or Kiryat Gat. > > > >Meir Cohen, principal of the Zienman Comprehensive Secondary School in > >Dimona, thinks the cancellation of the psychometric exam "will not benefit > >high-school students living in Israel's periphery." He hopes the aggregate > >score of a candidate's marks on the matriculation exams in mathematics, > >English and Hebrew will not be the sole criterion for admission to > >prestigious university departments or faculties. > > > >A similar concern is voiced by the principal of the Gottlieb Comprehensive > >Secondary School in Sderot, Eli Bir. He says that according to the figures > >at his disposal, only 47 percent of the students in his school completed > >their matriculation needs during the past academic year. For comparison, > >more than 90 percent of students in "elitist" secondary schools in North Tel > >Aviv get a matriculation certificate when they finish their high school > >studies. > > > >Sarid says "in order to close the gap in `quality of education' between Tel > >Aviv and Dimona, the country's development towns must enjoy a distinct > >advantage in terms of budget allocations." However, he points out, this > >skewing of the budget "has never taken place because of chronic budget > >problems." > > > >The director-general of the education ministry, Ronit Tirosh, says that > >figures showing extreme polarization in Israel regarding quality of > >education are nothing new. "I have worked in the school system and these > >figures do not surprise me." She claims the polarization has nothing to do > >with inadequate education budgets. > > > >"Were we to pool all the resources available to students in the periphery > >from the education ministry and from other agencies active in the field, we > >would find that the amount of money invested in students from distressed > >backgrounds is equivalent to the amount of money invested in students from > >affluent backgrounds." > > > >To maximize the effectiveness of investments in education, the budget of the > >ministry should focus on the starting point of an individual's learning > >process (through the training of mathematics teachers for work with > >preschoolers, teaching English in grade one, and teaching reading skills in > >kindergarten). It should also target the final stage of the secondary school > >process (through the use of highly skilled teachers to prepare students for > >their matriculation exams). > > > >Tirosh says that "within three years the gaps will be narrower in the > >education system." > > > >=======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt > >=======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS > >=======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS > >=======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO > >=======> maintainer e-mail: > > =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:34:59 +0200 From: "A.Peled" Subject: turko- ugro-finn To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector Dear Ari Shivola, Thank you for the interesting remarks from a genuine Finn. I had a pre-conception that there is no real connection between the 3 languages but for their apparent vocal intonation similarity. I dont know of any statistical comparison of the 3 languages words and grammatical rules, like I believe exists for the anglo-german languages or franco-romano-hispanic, or hebrew-arabic-arameic,whose connection is well established. I still wonder how many words and gramattical similarity exists in the turko-ugro-fenno group of languages. In fact I thought long ago of writing some computer program to test for the above, using the dictionaries, but then the computers were too weak and dictionaries non-electronically stored. Cordially, Ari Peled (Aaron) =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:56:17 +0200 From: S I Ben-Abraham Subject: Re: Finnish, Turkish To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL In-Reply-To: <20011016055424.D7411154A5@techunix.technion.ac.il> =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector For what that's worth (from an emphasize: AMATEUR linguist). It is not easy to prove or disprove that language A is related to language B if that is not obvious (like the case of Indo-European, Semito-Hamitic languages). As already said (or implied) the proximity of Finnish and Estonian was pretty clear, not so their kinship to Hungarian or Mordvin. However: the main criterion is stucture which tends to persist; the vocabulary changes relatively fast and can be very misleading. As far as I know, there is widespread consensus among the experts that the Turk and Finno-Ugric groups are related. Even Japanese and Korean (with no obvious kinship except agglutination and both masked by the tremendous impact of totally unrealted Chinese) are said to be akin to the Ural-ASltai language family. Of course, this is neither mathematics nor a really exact science. So one must be rather circumspect. Anyway: I the first half of the 20th century a great deal of linguists professed a religion whose prophet was Prince Trubeckoj (Troubetskoy, Trubezkoj, pick your choice) according to whom the similarity of languages is the product of interaction, NOT common origin. Now, the fashion, OTOH, is the monogenetic theory according to which ALL languages have a common origin. More specifically, say, Indo-European and Semito-Hamitic (which have many salient common features) belong to Nostratic. So my advice is: (1) Choose your pet hypothesis by yourself. (2) Try to learn something from the experts rather than from amateurs like myself. Any, have a lot of fun. SIBA S I Ben-Abraham Department of Physics Ben-Gurion University POB 653 IL-84105 Beer-Sheba Israel Phone: +972 8 646 1168 (office) +972 8 642 4611 (home) fax: +972 8 647 2903 =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:00:29 +0200 From: Yair Censor Subject: A FORWARDED MESSAGE FROM SEGEL ZUTAR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:46:35 +0200 From: Bonnie Ben Israel To: SEGEL-PLUS@research.haifa.ac.il Subject: SEGEL-PLUS: Strike Position of Junior Faculty Union The Junior Faculty Union (Segel Zutar) at the University of Haifa is NOT on strike. Our members will continue in all their functions. Our collective agreement expired on September 30, 2001, and, so far, we have not received any response regarding our demands made in writing last June. Negotiations are due to begin the first week of the academic year. However, we do fully support the grievances and the goals of the Senior Faculty (Segel Bachir). We have informed our members not to take on any unusually large classes nor to accept "bachir" tasks during the strike. Since our members find themselves in a delicate position vis a vis the administration, we ask all senior faculty to help us see that "zutarim" are not asked to do more than their usual tasks. Our office is open Mondays through Thursdays, 10 a.m. - 3 p.m., Room 4064 in the Terrace Building, 824-0575, Internal: 2575. E-mail: jstaff@research.haifa.ac.il Wishing you a speedy, successful conclusion and unity, strength, and endurance in the struggle ahead, Bonnie Ben-Israel Vice-Chair Junior Faculty Union University of Haifa ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ SEGEL-PLUS - University of Haifa Faculty Electronic Discussion Forum DISCLAIMER: Views herein expressed belong to the individual senders and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other individuals or bodies associated with the University of Haifa. *To REPLY to the sender of a posting: use your "reply" option. *To POST to everyone on the list: send your message to --->SEGEL-PLUS@research.haifa.ac.il . *To QUIT the list: send the message UNSUBSCRIBE SEGEL-PLUS to --->majordomo@research.haifa.ac.il . *For list INFO: send the message INTRO SEGEL-PLUS to --->majordomo@research.haifa.ac.il . *Send QUERIES to: owner-SEGEL-PLUS@research.haifa.ac.il . =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:27:00 +0200 From: Chaim Forgacs Subject: Turko etc. To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL Unauthorized Encoding Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by eesrv.ee.bgu.ac.il id RAA29093 Aaron Peled wrote (among other things): >I still wonder how many words and gramattical similarity exists in the turko-ugro-fenno >group of languages. In fact I thought long ago of writing some computer program >to test for the above, using the dictionaries, but then the computers were too weak and dictionaries >non-electronically stored. > > > >Cordially, > >Ari Peled (Aaron) As far as I recall, indications for the common origin of two languages are not similarities in their vocabularies, but rather rules of differences. For example the german D and the English Th. CF -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:36:04 -0000 From: Ilan Hartuv Subject: Semito-Hamitic . To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector SIBA writes about a Semito-Hamitic group of languages.Most serious scholars now call the group AFROASIATIC,because if we call them Semito-Hamitic one would think that the non-Semitic languages comprise one group.Also ,it`s the only group of languages spoken both in Asia and Africa. The 5 Groups are 1.Semitic -Apart from Hebrew and Arabic ,the group includes the life-languages Amharic ,Tigryna and tigrte and Ghez ,the language of prayer of Ethiopia-including the Ethiopian Jews . I will not enumerate the dead languages. 2.Berber languages still spoken in North Africa. 3.Chadic languages-13o languages in West-Central Africa . The largest is Hausa ,spoken by about 30 million people in North Nigeria . It is a written language ,in Arab letters since the 89th century AD. 4.Cushitic languages ,include Somali ,Galla and other languages spoken in Ethiopia and surrounding areas.It is interesting that the Ethiopian Jews ,a hundred years ago ,spoke Cushitic dialects and not Semitic ones 4B-Some. authorities think that the Aumotic languages ,spoken in south-west Ethiopia are a separate grouping . 5.the Egyptian branch-Includes only Ancient Egyptian and its derivative ,Coptic Ilan =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:55:42 -0000 From: Ilan Hartuv Subject: : All Roads don`t lead to Istanbul... To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector Up-to-date authorities think that there is no such animal as Ural-A|Altaic languages -There is the Altai group to which Turkish belongs and there is the Fino-Ugric group ,to which Hungarian ,Finnish ,Estonian ,Lapp and many other languages belong. No connection to Turkish. Ilan -------------------------- SIBA wrote.All of these languages belong to the Ural-Altai language family. A characteristic feature is vowel harmony =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:34:43 -0400 From: Joseph Gerver Subject: Re: anthrax To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector >Can our bacteriologist colleagues tell us how long to microwave a >suspicious letter? >Micah And maybe our chemist colleagues can tell us what will happen if the envelope actually contains a letter bomb. (Although I suppose it is better for a letter bomb to explode in the microwave than in our hands.) Joseph Gerver Dept. of Mathematics Rutgers University Camden, NJ 08102 USA =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: -------------->Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:59:32 -0400 From: Joseph Gerver Subject: Finnish To: ACADEMIA@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL =======> "Academia", Communication tool of the past present and future =======> An unedited free subscription list =======> Copied to http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia =======> Caveat lector Perhaps, Ari, you can clear up a small mystery for me. When I visited Finland almost 30 years ago, I was surprised to learn that the conjugation of Finnish verbs closely resembles that of Indo- European languages, such as Russian and Latin. For example, the first, second and third person, singular and plural, of sano (say) are sanon, sanot, sanoo, sanomme, sanotte, sanovat. Is this a case of borrowing, or a common Nostratic ancestor, or what? It seems unlikely to be coincidence. Joseph Gerver Dept. of Mathematics Rutgers University Camden, NJ 08102 USA =======> Help/Info: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~academia/Academia_List.txt =======> PLEASE AVOID LONG QUOTES AND RAW FORWARDS =======> CONSULT ME BEFORE POSTING VIRUS ALERTS OR CHAIN LETTERS =======> SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS ONLY TO =======> maintainer e-mail: